FAQs

FAQs About Summer Camp and Money To Pay For It

Q. When do we have to commit the numbers of campers to the council?
A. There are several steps involved. In October of each year we have the "camp draw" at which we select camps, campsites and camp sessions. There are meetings on two consecutive nights. The first night, and the first pick, goes to the larger troops. They literally "draw" their numbers from a bowl and make their selections. The second night is for the smaller troops who use the same method but select only from what is left after the larger troops pick.

Q. What's a "larger" troop?
A. In the past it's been based on the number of scouts camping in the prior year and usually breaks around 40. For 2005, because we camped more than 40 scouts last year (2004) we got in the first group. This coming fall, we'll be in the smaller group and won't get the first set of picks.

Q. When do families find out about the dates for camp and the location?
A. It varies depending on when the "draw" occurs, but we try to get that information to our families as soon as we can so they can make plans accordingly. This year we sent out a flier right after the "draw" on October 23 that listed dates, camp and campsite, registration fees, spending money and let our families know that money is being collected now. Payment dates were listed on the Troop calendar on the website, noted in newsletters and we also talked about all this at the pot luck in March following crossovers.

Q. When will we "draw" for dates for the 2006 camping season?
A. We just got these over this weekend. We will "draw" for dates on October 22, 2005 and our troop will be in the first group to draw that night, but it's the second night of the camp "draw," so we'll have to take what's available at that time. Plus, we don't know whether we'll be the first or last in that initial group.

Q. OK, what's the next step?
A. After our initial numbers are given and camps and sessions selected, we have to pay that initial deposit for each camper the night of the "draw." Last year, the deposit was $40 per person. Next, in February or March, we have to pay the first half of the camp fee for our group. Then the balance has to be paid in April.

Q. Can't you adjust numbers through this process?
A. Yes to a limited extent. But at each step our ability to adjust our numbers gets tighter.

Q. But what about new scouts? We don't have crossovers until March, usually?
A. We have to guess, and we hope we are close to being right. For a couple of years running we'd been pretty accurate. This time we were off two or three on the high side. Council recognizes this and allows us to correct in the last payment, but we also have to tie names to amounts paid on that last payment which is why it's so important for us to know definitely who's going and who is not.

Q. What did Troop 225 pay this last camping season?
A. Here's the numbers and the dates on what the Troop paid for the 2005 camping season at Bartle:
10/23/04 Draw deposit for 52 scouts, 6 leaders ..................................$2,320.00
3/08/05 Payment................................................................................ $5,415.00
4/02/05 Campership applied to account............................................... $115.00
4/27/05 Final pmt: 41 boys, 6 FT adults plus 29 part time adult days. $3,640.00
TOTAL............................................................................................. $11,490.00

Q. Then the troop has to pay this all in advance?
A. That's right, and its "big-time money." Because we prefer to use our fundraisers to purchase camping equipment for our Scouts, you can see that this whole thing depends on our families giving us the funds, likewise in advance, so we can make these payments when they are due. Conservative management of our funds usually allows us a small amount of "working capital" to cover late pays from our families, etc., but it's not a big amount.

Q. What happens if a payment is late?
A. If it's just a day or two, probably nothing. If it's seriously late, the council will increase the cost for everybody in our group. The payments are based on timely payment by the campers and they will charge us a premium if we're really late.

Q. Do you know the cost for 2006?
A. Yes, we just got that information also. The cost will be $245 if it's paid on or before April 26, 2006. If it's paid after that date, it's $265. For obvious reasons it behooves us to be on time with that final payment, and that means that we'll be talking to you in advance of that date. These are not dates that we set; they are set by the Council.

Q. But what if there are changes at the last minute and a scout cannot attend?
A. Things can happen at the last minute. In some circumstances the Council gives us a refund. Over the years they've seriously tightened their policy on refunds and now it's essentially a "no refund" policy unless there has been a death in the immediate family, serious illness of the scout or parent, or something like that. We've argued about this with them, but they respond that they have committed for Staff and food well before that date and they can't get their money back. Probably true.

Q. So, if we paid and our son couldn't attend, will we get our money back?
A. Reasonable request. We'd like to give you a confident"yes," but if the council doesn't agree . . . . Here's the deal: If we're able to get the council to give us all or some of the money back, we'll certainly pass that on -- we have no interest in keeping it.

Q. What if they don't give the Troop a refund?
A. We can't give you back something that we don't get. Think of it this way: Troop has to pay -- in advance -- for the boys and leaders that attend. If the council doesn't refund to us, should the Troop, in other words, the rest of our parents and campers, bear the cost of your son's camp fees? Obviously if we got to make the rules, it would be different, but we don't make the rules. We used to be able to"short register," so that we would always owe some small amount and any last minute adjustments would be swallowed up in that final accounting, but council changed that policy.

Q. Why is council so tight on this?
A. You would really need to ask them, but in our experience it relates to past abuse or "gaming" of the "system." Some troops would sign up way more than they would ever take, just to get a "big" campsite, then show up with 1/2 the number of scouts. That causes a major problem on the "move-in" day at camp. The reverse is also true. Some troops have showed up with twice the number that they had signed up, and that's even a larger problem for the camp staff and commissioners to handle at the last minute. Obviously if there are 10 extra scouts in a camp that handles 650, that's not a huge problem. But if an extra 100+ show up, that's serious, not only for tents and locations but for food for the whole session. We have some sympathy for council who has to try to manage all this and produce a happy experience for everybody. Remember, when Bartle is in full session, it's the largest city in St. Clair county!

Q. Who manages all this for us?
A. It's a combined effort between Mr. Davey, his Scoutmaster team, our talented treasurer Dean Meier and our Committee Secretary Mrs. Davey. A major part of the responsibility initially is on Mr. Davey, but then quickly shifts to Mr. Meier to "make ends meet." They manage it well, but it really helps if our families will work closely with Dean as we move through the process.

Q. By the way, what's that "campership" thingy? Can I get one of those?
A. The summer camp experience is an important part of Scouting in our Troop and for the council and we want as many Scouts as possible to articipate. Because of the generosity of some council Scouting sponsors, council has some limited funds to help a few families. We have to apply for these funds early. The Troop also has some folk in our sponsoring organization that have indicated in the past they may be able to help out sometimes. We cannot do any of these at the last minute. Most are the "matching" or "gap filling" type of help and expect the family to do what they can on their own. For obvious reasons we keep this on a one-to-one confidential basis. If you think you might qualify, please see Mr. Davey or Mr. Conrad early in the process.